A Violation of Human Rights Re: Forcing A Deaf Child to Wear CI

Checked the search feature to make sure this video hasn't been posted yet....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W1qOQXeHrc]YouTube - A Violation of Human Rights Re: Forcing A Deaf Child to Wear CI[/ame]

This video addresses alot of good points...

Yiz

While it does address some good points, the fact of the matter is children in the U.S. don't automatically have rights such as an adult does. We could not force an adult to get a CI, but we can force children to get one. Again, just another example of the audism prevalent in the majority culture.

jillio said:

While it does address some good points, the fact of the matter is children in the U.S. don't automatically have rights such as an adult does. We could not force an adult to get a CI, but we can force children to get one. Again, just another example of the audism prevalent in the majority culture.

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That's what gets my goat. Treating a child like it's a piece of property to do as you please by shoving a foreign substance by invasive means into a body that was never there to begin with at the moment of birth.

That's why I strongly advocate that the child should wait until he/she is 18 to decide what it is they want to do with their bodies whereas there won't be anything we can do about it because they are now/then adults. All conforming with their own personal and well informed decisions (i.e. pros and cons) before taking the next step.

Bullshit that latent speech learning post CI at the age of 18. It's never too late to learn at any age. Life is everlearning and we always learn something new almost everyday from what we see and read everyday.

So, imho, leave it be until they're 18! (hey, that rhymns!)

Yiz

yizuman said:

Bullshit that latent speech learning post CI at the age of 18. It's never too late to learn at any age. Life is everlearning and we always learn something new almost everyday from what we see and read everyday.

So, imho, leave it be until they're 18! (hey, that rhymns!)

Yiz

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agreed

ahh, the anti-cochlear implanters have crawled out from under their rocks and are out in full force tonight. I didn't even notice if the moon was full!

Sorry, but parents making reasoned and well informed decisions on behalf of their children is not the use of "force". Even leading Deaf organizations and institutions such as the NAD and Gallaudet do not subscribe to such reactionary and bizarre beliefs. Time to join the 21st century and the rest of the D/deaf community which has embraced the right of parents to choose a cochlear implant for their children.

Are you guys also dues paying members of the flat earth society?

Keep pissing into the wind, it looks good on you :0

Rick

Rick, why are you here justifying your decision so many years after the fact? It's time to move on... literally and figuratively.

rick48 said:

ahh, the anti-cochlear implanters have crawled out from under their rocks and are out in full force tonight. I didn't even notice if the moon was full!

Sorry, but parents making reasoned and well informed decisions on behalf of their children is not the use of "force". Even leading Deaf organizations and institutions such as the NAD and Gallaudet do not subscribe to such reactionary and bizarre beliefs. Time to join the 21st century and the rest of the D/deaf community which has embraced the right of parents to choose a cochlear implant for their children.

Are you guys also dues paying members of the flat earth society?

Keep pissing into the wind, it looks good on you :0

Rick

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Eh? They are a minority. So, time to join the minority! Yeah, riiiiiight.

sallylou said:

Rick, why are you here justifying your decision so many years after the fact? It's time to move on... literally and figuratively.

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We have all said the same time and again. Appears to be a bit of regret after the fact going on that is fueling an attempt at justification.

Beowulf said:

Eh? They are a minority. So, time to join the minority! Yeah, riiiiiight.

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And a quite small minority to be sure.:P

yizuman said:

That's what gets my goat. Treating a child like it's a piece of property to do as you please by shoving a foreign substance by invasive means into a body that was never there to begin with at the moment of birth.

That's why I strongly advocate that the child should wait until he/she is 18 to decide what it is they want to do with their bodies whereas there won't be anything we can do about it because they are now/then adults. All conforming with their own personal and well informed decisions (i.e. pros and cons) before taking the next step.

Bullshit that latent speech learning post CI at the age of 18. It's never too late to learn at any age. Life is everlearning and we always learn something new almost everyday from what we see and read everyday.

So, imho, leave it be until they're 18! (hey, that rhymns!)

Yiz

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^^^^^^ Yeah that!

yizuman said:

That's what gets my goat. Treating a child like it's a piece of property to do as you please by shoving a foreign substance by invasive means into a body that was never there to begin with at the moment of birth.

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+1 Good point. This is why I'm so against people trying to feed infants and toddlers -- shoving what they perceive as "healthy" baby food in their mouths as if they owned them. Same thing with diapers and clothing and cribs -- this type of physical restraint at such a tender age is dead wrong -- invasive and cruel. If the child wants to wear clothing at 18, fine, but before that -- we should simply open the back door and if guide them gently to the grassy areas for all of their needs. Tooth brushing after meals? Give up this need to control -- no child wants this, there is nothing wrong with letting our teeth be -- brushing is simply a cosmetic procedure that is unnecessary. And forcing these practices are just the tip of the iceberg, some of the more visible aspects of the torture that parents inflict upon children for their own convenience. Think about the continued insidious choices parents force their children into, sending children to schools to be indoctrinated by "teachers" and the masses of sheep-like children out there -- enforcing rules. Medical "check-ups" -- really? Isn't this just their way of controlling children with injections and drugs and examinations? It never stops.

Leave it be until they're 18!

I think somebody here is taking it too personally. Yes, it's that obvious.

Banjo said:

I think somebody here is taking it too personally. Yes, it's that obvious.

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While he may be taking it personally, I think Yiz has a right to express his opinion.

The hearing parents of a deaf child with a CI are going to have the same response as in other threads: dictating an analogy (as was posted in other threads) comparing a CI to forcing a child to eat vegetables or take a bath or tie shoes. The difference is that these are things that are part of growing up, living, etc -- ALL children (DEAF or HEARING) will go through this. There's a substantial difference between that and subjecting a child to a SURGICAL procedure. Feeding and clothing children is nowhere even close. As Yiz said:

yizuman said:

That's what gets my goat. Treating a child like it's a piece of property to do as you please by shoving a foreign substance by invasive means into a body that was never there to begin with at the moment of birth.

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AlleyCat said:

The hearing parents of a deaf child with a CI are going to have the same response: dictating an analogy (as was posted in other threads) comparing a CI to forcing a child to eat vegetables or take a bath or tie shoes. The difference is that these are things that are part of growing up, living, etc -- ALL children (DEAF or HEARING) will go through this. There's a substantial difference between that and subjecting a child to a SURGICAL procedure. Feeding and clothing children is nowhere even close. As Yiz said:

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What don't you get about this? Parenting requires making decisions for your child and often involves doing something an infant or toddler can't do on his/her own. You can't leave a child be until he is 18. You are making a decision, in the words of the OP, "forcing" something, no matter what you do: whether you choose an education path, a vegetable, a surgical procedure -- or NOT. You are making decisions for your child. And as parent, you have both a right and a responsibility to do that.

The point is that you can argue whether you like the ultimate decision that's been or being made, but it makes no sense to argue whether or not parents should be making decisions for their children. They do. They have to.

This video that has been posted in many forms here, is not about that. It's brutal, but not for the reasons being discussed (to CI or not, to control or not). Artistically, the initial dramatizations are laughable and undercut what could be a very important issue. This child -- despite having knowledge of ASL and access to sound via CIs obviously has no means of communicating with those around her. Everything is conducted in a combination of primitive and brutal demands (whether spoken or signed) and the child's responses are painful to watch: she growls and mews like a feral animal, her signing is brief and basic and not responded to in sign. It's a terrible situation, a terrible relationship. It breaks my heart to see her suffer, but it's not about the CI, it's far greater. No one should communicate with a child about ANYTHING in this way.

GrendelQ said:

What don't you get about this? Parenting requires making decisions for your child and often involves doing something an infant or toddler can't do on his/her own. You can't leave a child be until he is 18. You are making a decision, in the words of the OP, "forcing" something, no matter what you do: whether you choose an education path, a vegetable, a surgical procedure -- or NOT. You are making decisions for your child. And as parent, you have both a right and a responsibility to do that.

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There is nothing I don't get. I totally understand parental responsibility. You have a responsibility to feed and clothe your child. You'd likely be arrested at some point if you didn't. However, a CI is not a requirement - it's a choice. You would not be arrested if you implanted your child. You would not be arrested if you didn't. The issue here is about an OPTIONAL solution. Keep in mind that I have said numerous times over that I am not one bit against a CI -- I have considered one for myself and will likely reconsider it again in the future. I'm not a proponent for/against a CI. I'm addressing what others are addressing -- the idea of implanting a child before they're old enough to make that decision for themselves. Feeding, bathing, clothing are so far away from the realm of this that it's a joke to even make that comparison, really.

i dont know if some videos that i recognize that was taken a couple of years ago. but well

The reason I can identify with posters who are not fond of those implanting a child at an early age is that we share the same feeling -- that these hearing parents feel their child cannot get by in life without being implanted with a CI early on. I am profoundly deaf, but I have a high-paying job, I wear HAs and hear what's going on around me, my speech is so good that nobody can identify that it's a deaf person (seriously!) speaking, my English skills are good. Sorry -- I'm not bragging -- just pointing out -- and I did this, among MANY others, without a CI at an early age. If I'm going to get a CI at some point, it will be more to satisfy my curiosity of sounds that I've never heard before. I don't need to improve anything else. Hence why I haven't gotten one just yet, based on my CI audi's recommendations. Yes, many of us have shared "horror stories" of our school years, myself included, and much of that has changed in present times. A deaf child without a CI doesn't necessarily go through even close what many of us did 30, 40 years ago. So for me, a CI is NOT a necessity to succeed. Why parents want to discount the successful adults who did not have a CI as a child is beyond me.

GrendelQ said:

+1 Good point. This is why I'm so against people trying to feed infants and toddlers -- shoving what they perceive as "healthy" baby food in their mouths as if they owned them. Same thing with diapers and clothing and cribs -- this type of physical restraint at such a tender age is dead wrong -- invasive and cruel. If the child wants to wear clothing at 18, fine, but before that -- we should simply open the back door and if guide them gently to the grassy areas for all of their needs. Tooth brushing after meals? Give up this need to control -- no child wants this, there is nothing wrong with letting our teeth be -- brushing is simply a cosmetic procedure that is unnecessary. And forcing these practices are just the tip of the iceberg, some of the more visible aspects of the torture that parents inflict upon children for their own convenience. Think about the continued insidious choices parents force their children into, sending children to schools to be indoctrinated by "teachers" and the masses of sheep-like children out there -- enforcing rules. Medical "check-ups" -- really? Isn't this just their way of controlling children with injections and drugs and examinations? It never stops.

Leave it be until they're 18!

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And you left out the cruelest of all.......Car seats. Should a child be forced not to bounce around like dice in a yahtzee cup.