Just simple questions

I am aware of the warning, wars, opinions and all that related to the decision of having Cochlear Implants.

My mate and I have been talking about this for the last two weeks after realizing how cruel AG Bell was and still is. Then my mate started looking everything up about them and other stuff such as C.I., ASL, Deaf rights, etc.

I do not want any problem for anyone including myself. I just want to know your side on this.

Here it is..

What will you do if the law forces people to have C.I.? (I heard several countries passed the bill to become a law to force the implant, some by options)


There is a lot of things going on between both hearing and deaf world, there was lot of debates if people was informed enough or not that there is options before they get to decisions including the risks. Positive or Not. Some states have the law or authority for audiologist and doctors to provide options when the infants were found deaf.

Were your parents/you been informed enough before the operation?




Just to satisfy some of my curiosity because I and my mate opposite this theory because some of the government does not make any sense on what bill to veto or pass. Comparing it to other bills involving Stem Cell Programs, Cancer & Disease programs, Deaf & blind programs and more.


Keep in mind, this is open discussion, not a place for a arguments, war by emotion and other things to get us all in trouble with the moderator. I respect the moderator and the founder of this website so I want to keep it down with open heart and mind.

Please pardon my ignorance but can you show me proof with sources of any countries or states that have bills or laws that force deaf people to be implanted.

Thank you

I wish there is middle ground between CI users and Deaf people.....

I can't believe that would pass in the US. I am a hearing person and I'd be VERY upset if it became the law, and I'd do my best to defeat it. Why should anyone be forced to have invasive surgery?! Or be forced to have a treatment they don't want. It's not a life-threatening issue. Even then I'd have qualms about forcing a treatment on someone.

In a perfect world, all those involved would have clear information and be allowed to make their own decisions and have those decisions respected. As we've seen from history, it's not a perfect world. No reason or excuse though for giving up striving to make it a closer to perfect world. Information sharing and communication are key - be it ASL or English - or whatever language. JMO.

Since you think ag bell was cruel, does that mean ben frankling was also cruel. Everything in the world is done with the best of knowledge and resources of the time. At their time ag and ben did their best but today we can do more. There is more for those with poor eyesight to be able to see clearly and without glasses because the people themself have the ability to pay-as-you-go and there is a lag with ha because most deaf wont wear them, as well as c.i. Because, again, most deaf (i really want to say all) deaf wont accept one. Nevertheless, the best solution is still out there because we have to continue to improve the ideas of ben and ag.

rolling7 said:

Since you think ag bell was cruel, does that mean ben frankling was also cruel. Everything in the world is done with the best of knowledge and resources of the time. At their time ag and ben did their best but today we can do more. There is more for those with poor eyesight to be able to see clearly and without glasses because the people themself have the ability to pay-as-you-go and there is a lag with ha because most deaf wont wear them, as well as c.i. Because, again, most deaf (i really want to say all) deaf wont accept one. Nevertheless, the best solution is still out there because we have to continue to improve the ideas of ben and ag.

Click to expand...

AgBell promoted the sterlization of Deaf people. To me, that is cruel.


I would fight against any laws forcing CIs in deaf people or children.

Hollykins1 said:

I can't believe that would pass in the US. I am a hearing person and I'd be VERY upset if it became the law, and I'd do my best to defeat it. Why should anyone be forced to have invasive surgery?! Or be forced to have a treatment they don't want. It's not a life-threatening issue. Even then I'd have qualms about forcing a treatment on someone.

In a perfect world, all those involved would have clear information and be allowed to make their own decisions and have those decisions respected. As we've seen from history, it's not a perfect world. No reason or excuse though for giving up striving to make it a closer to perfect world. Information sharing and communication are key - be it ASL or English - or whatever language. JMO.

Click to expand...

Be careful not to take what someone says as fact. I have asked for proof of such a bill or law and have yet to see it. Beware of all of the mis-information out there. Ask for proof.

rockdrummer said:

Please pardon my ignorance but can you show me proof with sources of any countries or states that have bills or laws that force deaf people to be implanted.

Thank you

Click to expand...

No medical procedure can be carried out without the consent of the person concerned, or in the case of children their parents. The only exception to this is if the person lacks capacity, due to mental impairment. Therefore forcing anyone to have a medical procedure they do not want is unethical and probably illegal. Isn't this what the Nazis did?

AgBell promoted the sterlization of Deaf people. To me, that is cruel.

Click to expand...

AND he also popularized the "healthy normal" and "dhh folks can be 100% equal in the hearing world via oral only" mentaltities.

djchur said:

No medical procedure can be carried out without the consent of the person concerned, or in the case of children their parents. The only exception to this is if the person lacks capacity, due to mental impairment. Therefore forcing anyone to have a medical procedure they do not want is unethical and probably illegal. Isn't this what the Nazis did?

Click to expand...

I also believe this to be true yet there are those that still claim there are laws that force CI's on deaf people.

I'm still looking for the SIMPLE question.

Where is it?

Nope, I don't believe for one bit that any gov't will force it citizens to get a CI. The main reason I say that is human nature. Why would a gov't spend the money for a small percentage of the population that may or may not benefit from a CI? It is much easier and cheaper for the gov't to ignore that small group and focus on the ones that can hear which make up the majority of any given population.

Having said that, I found a link http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/04/29/1168049/spokane-father-wont-force-deaf.html that points out in certain circumstances, the law may intervene.

This situation is not one where a person needs a CI but rather already has one. The issue is more of enforcing an ongoing arraignment.

sr171soars said:

Nope, I don't believe for one bit that any gov't will force it citizens to get a CI. The main reason I say that is human nature. Why would a gov't spend the money for a small percentage of the population that may or may not benefit from a CI? It is much easier and cheaper for the gov't to ignore that small group and focus on the ones that can hear which make up the majority of any given population.

Having said that, I found a link Spokane father won't force deaf daughter to wear required cochlear implants | Health News - The News Tribune that points out in certain circumstances, the law may intervene.

This situation is not one where a person needs a CI but rather already has one. The issue is more of enforcing an ongoing arraignment.

Click to expand...

This is more of an issue beteween a divorced couple. The request for the court order was from the mother and not something the courts came up with on their own. It's also not clear if it was honored and / or enforced. Also the statement that the courts can force this was made by the father and not necessiarly legal fact. There are a lot of unanswered questions in this particular article.

In August 2009, Orton Miller, who can hear, asked the court to revise the custody order to require that the child wear the device during all waking hours, except when "activities would preclude" their use, such as swimming or wearing a helmet.

Click to expand...

I have seen zero evidence of any bills or laws on the books that will force CI's on deaf people as the OP has eluded to. What also concerns me is that when some people read such nonsense, they actually believe it.

Rockdrummer:

since you have heard China finally passed to allow deaf to drive but they are forced to wear hearing aid or C.I. if they want to drive. I have to go ask my mate which link she found regarding to this. She mentioned that few countries made it happen but we can not promise that it is a law or a true event just yet. But I know the fact is that Denmark has announced by a deaf leader that almost every deaf human being in that country is wearing C.I. so my mate went searching and found out that they actually were caused by the law of Denmark. That was last week, so we will have to find that link all over again... there is many sources that some country governments has been requiring that. Somewhere in the search engine that someone mentioned this "AB2072" and my mate disliked this. There is a lot of other sources that led the committee of the gov't in several states to consider it but they have been delayed since a lot of people has different opinions.

Everyone:
We deaf parents will fight against it. We have both hearing and one deaf kid in family and we will fight. Our hearing families said the same because it is free country which means it is our choice not theirs. you know what I am saying? They also were working on fixing the bill that tells the audiologists to give out more options to new parents of deaf infant instead of giving them limited options on what to do with the hearing loss. Since 1970s, parents have been told they are recommended the CI or hearing aids to help deaf infant combine the society with "normal" kids. Half of the parents out there refused while other half agreed if they can afford it. So why order us if we refuse. It is just that our child is not theirs. That is why I wanted to ask for your expression.

I appreciate this friendly discussion. Any more discussion? please do.

shel90 said:

AgBell promoted the sterlization of Deaf people. To me, that is cruel.


I would fight against any laws forcing CIs in deaf people or children.

Click to expand...

This.

A no brainer if you ask me. Forcing anything onto people's bodies is cruel and a violation of fundamental human rights. Can't believe it's something that would even be considered to begin with.

rolling7 said:

Everything in the world is done with the best of knowledge and resources of the time. At their time ag and ben did their best but today we can do more.

Click to expand...

No matter what A. G. Bell knew in his time or what the technology was, there's no nice way to go about trying to eradicate a group of people and definitely no excuse or it either.

This is worth looking at:

[When cochlear implants came to Denmark and the de... [Dan Medicinhist Arbog. 2006] - PubMed result

And did you hear about the one where a judge is forcing an 8 yr old girl to wear her CI? Although the issue is between her Mom and Dad but, hey, come on.....the judge found for the hearing mother over the deaf dad....

Tousi said:

And did you gear about the one where a judge is forcing an 8 yr old girl to wear her CI? Although the issue is between her Mom and Dad but, hey, come on.....the judge found for the hearing mother over the deaf dad....

Click to expand...

I believe that was discussed in post 12 and 13. That is if it's the same girl.

rockdrummer said:

I believe that was discussed in post 12 and 13. That is if it's the same girl.

Click to expand...

oops, okay, sorry