Is it really so bad to know SEE (Sign Exact English?)

SEE is not a language so it is up to you if you want to consider it as a bad thing or a good thing.

I find it cumbersome and too difficult on the eyes.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I was introduced to SEE when i was a kid. it puts me down to sleep.

I agree with Shel, you need a complete language and ASL is a complete language. It is not a perfect language, but neither is English. You have to look at the problems each language presents. No current language is without it's problems.

Frisky Feline said:

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I was introduced to SEE when i was a kid. it puts me down to sleep.

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It is because your brain was being forced to process information that is not being processed naturally.

English is processed naturally in the spoken form..that's how it evolved.

ASL is processed naturally in the signed form...that's how it evolved.

Taking a language that was evolved naturally in the spoken form to change it into the signed form is definitely not natural and as a result, much much harder to process it without doing some mental work hence why it put you to sleep or making you feel tired.

I never actually said it was a language or thought it was. I know the language is ASL, but I just look at it as the signs are actual words. It's just the way I put them together, but I guess I can see where you coming from. Sooooo I guess I'm on the highway until I learn the proper way to sign.


Anyone mind hitch hiking me back to the land of speech until I learn the proper way to sign? would appreciate it.

shel90 said:

It is because your brain was being forced to process information that is not being processed naturally.

English is processed naturally in the spoken form..that's how it evolved.

ASL is processed naturally in the signed form...that's how it evolved.

Taking a language that was evolved naturally in the spoken form to change it into the signed form is definitely not natural and as a result, much much harder to process it without doing some mental work hence why it put you to sleep or making you feel tired.

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LOL, thank you for explaining this to OP because you said it very well. Yes It is very tiring and confusing for me to think hard. It also causes my english suffer when i was forced to read the book and sign in SEE. When i signed in SEE and I resisted reading the books because i had no concepts of imaging or picture it at all.

NaLa said:

I never actually said it was a language or thought it was. I know the language is ASL, but I just look at it as the signs are actual words. It's just the way I put them together, but I guess I can see where you coming from. Sooooo I guess I'm on the highway until I learn the proper way to sign.


Anyone mind hitch hiking me back to the land of speech until I learn the proper way to sign? would appreciate it.

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I learned ASL at 25 years old ( 15 years ago) and I, of course, first started signing using the syntax of my first language (English) until I gradually became fluent in it after a few years. It takes time.

However, if you feel SEE is better for you, then it is YOUR choice but you cant expect other signers to switch from ASL to SEE just to meet your needs. You and the other person would have to find a compromise to meet each other's communication needs halfway.

Frisky Feline said:

LOL, thank you for explaining this to OP because you said it very well. Yes It is very tiring and confusing for me to think hard. It also causes my english suffer when i was forced to read the book and sign in SEE. When i signed in SEE and I resisted reading the books because i had no concepts of imaging or picture it at all.

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You know that I am a strong believer of ASL as a primary language for deaf children to help them master English.

shel90 said:

You know that I am a strong believer of ASL as a primary language for deaf children to help them master English.

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yes by good expressive writing.

I completely understand where you are coming from and its not that I would prefer to use SEE. If I can get myself to process ASL then it will be fine. And the highway thing was just a joke. I am very open to learning ASL the correct way. Clearly my signing is like broken ASL to someone who knows ASL, so I completely get it. I'm willing to put in the effort.

I appreciate all of the feedback. Just motivates me.

Hello, NaLa and welcome to AD and best wishes on your ASL journey. I cannot help but wonder, seeing as how you are in New York (Harlem, specifically) how you are doing in the aftermath of Sandy????

I probably wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't use SEE (or MSS).

I like ASL, but in my opinion... SEE is better in the education environment. I know many argue that it's not a language, but a signed aspect of English.

Yes, ASL is a language. Yes, Spanish is a language. Yes, German is a language. Yes, French is a language. However, those foreign students who come to American schools use English when they're in the education environment. It's English that gets them through spelling and grammar. If those students are expected to use English, then deaf students should be expected to use English as well. Since ASL isn't "English", then what can they use as a sign language system when trying to match their hearing peers? Signed Exact English (or other equivalent sign language).

A hispanic student will speak Spanish when he's at home or with other hispanic friends, but when he's at school... he will speak English with his teachers and in class.

With that logic...

A deaf student will sign ASL when he's at home or with other deaf friends, but when he's at school... he will sign SEE with his teachers and in class.

I grew up using SEE from elementary school to high school until I graduated. When I was out of school, I used ASL (or PSE). I didn't use ASL in the education environment until I went into college. I graduated at high school at grade level.

Almost all of my deaf classmates grew up using ASL from elementary school to high school until they graduated. Even though their teachers used SEE, those deaf students responded in ASL and used ASL everywhere. Those deaf classmates graduated at 3rd grade (to 7th grade) level.

I blame part of it on the flawed education system where some parents and teachers consider their deaf children "special" and require "special attention". As a result, those who don't do well in school are still given passing grades and progressed to the next grade level while getting behind on their actual grade level. For instance, why graduated at 7th grade math? They struggle with word problems, which usually begins in elementary school. Let's say word problems become normal in the 4th grade. They manage to finish 4th grade math during the middle of 5th grade... then finish 5th grade math during the end of 6th grade... then finish 6th grade math during the middle of 8th grade... then finish 7th grade math during the end of 11th grade. The same goes for spelling and grammar.

My parents and teachers treated me like a hearing kid when in school. If I failed a class, I went to summer school. If I got a low test grade, I got a low class grade. What I did, I got.

A lot of my deaf classmates were treated lightly by their parents and teachers. If they chose to have their children treated as "special". As a result, if those deaf students failed a class... they still passed. If they got a low test grade, they still got a passing class grade.

I have friends who are teachers and interpreters in the deaf education system and they say it's still going on today where some are given special treatment by teachers and parents... and the majority of those students prefer ASL over SEE.

NaLa said:

I'm hearing, and I first was introduced to sign language when I was in middle school, when I saw the alphabet in the back of one of my text books. I'm now 22, and because of the way I learned sign language, words at a time, without any real knowledge of ASL grammar, I've become to comfortable signing the way I speak spoken English. I know its not ASL, but I want to know, is it really that bad to know SEE? I mean there are plenty of hearing people who can't sign anything. I just think I shouldn't get bashed all the time for signing the way I speak spoken English. I don't sit there and sign "to" and spell out "is" like some other hearing people who SEE, but can I get a little credit at least for trying. Or is it, the ASL way or the highway??

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To whom are you signing, when and where?

I signed ASL, even in Ameslan, because it is like pictures with lots of expressions with our faces and hands to tell the story or what we want to say to another signers or to the interpreters. It is the expressions that give ASL the benefit to understand what we want to say.

SEE is different and is not able to express with the complete sentences. It is hard on us to understand some of it and can be very confusing, just because we are deaf. Yes, SEE is used for educational purpose to improve our English writing or in the classroom, but that is not working out too well.

ASL is like shorthand to make it simpler.

NaLa said:

I'm hearing, and I first was introduced to sign language when I was in middle school, when I saw the alphabet in the back of one of my text books. I'm now 22, and because of the way I learned sign language, words at a time, without any real knowledge of ASL grammar, I've become to comfortable signing the way I speak spoken English. I know its not ASL, but I want to know, is it really that bad to know SEE? I mean there are plenty of hearing people who can't sign anything. I just think I shouldn't get bashed all the time for signing the way I speak spoken English. I don't sit there and sign "to" and spell out "is" like some other hearing people who SEE, but can I get a little credit at least for trying. Or is it, the ASL way or the highway??

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I question you, who teach affect to you SEE PSE become how!

you didn't know how ASL!, I suppose you

I strong advise to feeling ASL best believe!

you before mainstream school oral or speech SEE, I wonder curious!

where your school?? before you. ASL is very clear to obviously make sure easily!

SEE is very troubleshooting misunderstand communication your clear

hard to understand, barrier communication and problem on tried to again over again!

Why hasn't anybody pointed out that someone who learns a bunch of signs is using PSE?

That isn't SEE at all, as SEE is a specific system of manually coded English which she is obviously not using.

Stringing signs together in English order is Pidgin Signed English!

Pidgin Signed English (PSE) – Best described as a combination of English and American Sign Language. A simplified language derived from two or more languages is called a pidgin. Culturally Deaf people, signing with each other, often use ASL, but many use a mixture of ASL and English. PSE is most frequently used by those who use spoken English as their primary language

Signing Exact English (SEE) – Just like it says, this is a system that matches sign language to the exact English translation. In 1972, this was one of the first sign languages to be published. Imagine a visual counterpart to match written and spoken English. This method will include word endings (i.e. ing, ed, ) not gestured in PSE or ASL. Sentences are signed word for word in English.

American Sign Language (ASL) – This sign language employs hands, arms, head, facial expression and body language to facilitate total communicatoion. ASL is not the same as written or spoken English. American Sign Language features an entirely different vocabulary and grammar. ASL was referred to as “Ameslan” in the 1960’s, but today it is simply called American Sign Language or ASL. In the United States, ASL is the most common sign language used among the Deaf. The syntax and grammar are distinct from other spoken languages, including English. When requesting an interpreter, this is most often the expected sign language unless specified otherwise.

that is reason!

Smithtr said:

Pidgin Signed English (PSE) – Best described as a combination of English and American Sign Language. A simplified language derived from two or more languages is called a pidgin. Culturally Deaf people, signing with each other, often use ASL, but many use a mixture of ASL and English. PSE is most frequently used by those who use spoken English as their primary language

Signing Exact English (SEE) – Just like it says, this is a system that matches sign language to the exact English translation. In 1972, this was one of the first sign languages to be published. Imagine a visual counterpart to match written and spoken English. This method will include word endings (i.e. ing, ed, ) not gestured in PSE or ASL. Sentences are signed word for word in English.

American Sign Language (ASL) – This sign language employs hands, arms, head, facial expression and body language to facilitate total communicatoion. ASL is not the same as written or spoken English. American Sign Language features an entirely different vocabulary and grammar. ASL was referred to as “Ameslan” in the 1960’s, but today it is simply called American Sign Language or ASL. In the United States, ASL is the most common sign language used among the Deaf. The syntax and grammar are distinct from other spoken languages, including English. When requesting an interpreter, this is most often the expected sign language unless specified otherwise.

that is reason!

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Thank you!

Bottesini said:

Thank you!

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your welcome