Mainstreamed vs Deaf-only education

I may not know the full aspect of the deaf-only and mainstreamed education system and methods however I'll just post up based on my experiences and perspective.

This thread is a response to : [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXBphr-Rhns]Proof! Mainstreaming IS FAILING Deaf students! - YouTube[/ame] : where this man claimed that "Mainstreamed Education is failing Deaf students". I totally disagree with this, even though National Center for Special Education Research (under the U.S. Department of Education) did this research which education is better for deaf - mainstreamed or deaf-only schools.

It may be true for United States and United Kingdom where deaf-only schools are favoured however in Australia, it is exactly opposite. I've noticed a lot of deaf and few of hearing/CODA people in deaf community believe in deaf-only schools because it will provide "better" education for deaf students and something like that. A lot of people around, especially these people with strong deaf identity claim that deaf students perform better in deaf-only schools compared to mainstreamed schools. It might be true for United States, where I noticed a lot of smart deaf students are attending deaf-only schools. But unfortunately, in this aspect of deaf education, mainstreamed schools are better for deaf students in Australia.

In Australia, only around 50 to 100 years ago, there are a number of deaf-only schools plotted around big cities around the country. But today, there are only two deaf-only schools remaining (Victorian College for the Deaf and Thomas Pattison School) - I am sorry if I offended any of you, but from my perspective, I think these two deaf-only schools will be ceased (closed down) within a decade or two because of sharp decline in students enrollment while there are more and more deaf students attending mainstreamed schools.

The overall scores based on deaf students achievements (understanding English, literacy, understanding maths and all of these important school subjects) for deaf-only schools are much lower.

So which means, to respond that statement, deaf-only schools are generally failing deaf students, ironically, in Australia because there are higher funding, more resources and more opportunities (for education) in mainstreamed schools. Education Departments all across the country fund more money to mainstreamed schools (Queensland - around $30 million for Australian Sign Language to be recognised in public mainstreamed schools - that includes Auslan Transition Program and improvement of deaf education for mainstreamed schools).

The big problem, is that deaf-only schools (VCD and TPS) are both private schools, so which means they recieve extremely limited funding to provide the education for deaf students compared to huge funding for mainstreamed schools.

Only around 5 years ago when deaf education for mainstreamed schools are worth around 20 years behind from other states because of Signed English and terrible education quality (it isn't school's fault - because they rely on Education departments) - but now, the education quality in Queensland are considered around 10 to 20 years ahead of other states because of Auslan Transition Program and other mega-programs that pushed the overall mainstreamed education quality to over the limit.

Let me call on this, the deaf education we are having now in Queensland (mainstreamed) are now in the Golden Age. I've noticed a significant difference on overall achievements results (for deaf students) between mainstreamed and deaf-only schools.

I went to three different schools, each with different education methods - bilingual/bicultural mainstreamed, normal mainstreamed and deaf-only. Guess how long I lasted in deaf-only school? One year. I couldn't stand on how terrible they are teaching, the education resources for deaf-only schools are too low and very limited compared to mainstreamed schools. So which means, these poor deaf students are failing at deaf-only schools and it is not their fault.

Every year, the student population at deaf-only schools are slowly declining as more schools are implemented with mainstreamed programs. In Brisbane, Queensland - there are 2 mainstreamed high schools and 3 mainstreamed primary schools. One of these 3 mainstreamed primary school are bilingual, and other two out of three are stuck between Signed English and Auslan (this is, indeed, give a big impact on deaf education).

I think there are around 30 deaf students along with 180 hearing students at this bilingual school (Toowong State School). Almost ALL hearing students, almost ALL hearing teachers can sign. The idea of "bilingual education" is very successful at this school. The bilingual program at Toowong established in 2001, starting with 4 deaf students (all of these 4 deaf students come from bilingual preschool in Yeerongpilly) - and now, there are around 30 deaf students and is increasing rapidly. The attitude at Toowong is very positive and cheerful whereas there are no negative attitude that deaf students can't do it because they are disabled or common "hearing impaired students" attitude from the staff. In general, there are NO deaf unit, deaf centres or whatever like that at this school. All deaf students are WAY TOO integrated into hearing world using sign language - which it is an extremely good thing. Once when you visit this school, you wouldn't know which students are deaf or hearing - everyone are generally signing including the principal. At this school, there are almost no need for interpreters even though there are few interpreters but they act like teacher assistant in general.

Now, lets stop talking about this school. Let's focus on mainstreamed high schools, there are set of around 5 to 10 interpreters (some are educational interprters and/or teacher aides) along with around 5 Teacher for the Deaf. The role for teacher for the deaf is not same as teacher aid, teacher for the deaf have a same role as a teacher itself - a bit like co teacher but focus on deaf students. I believe that the Teacher for the Deaf (as a co teacher) is a HUGE success for mainstreamed high schools, and each year level have at least one teacher for the deaf for almost all of the subjects (the remaining subjects without teacher for the deaf, will be provided with an interpreter).

I am personally deaf Seniors at the local high school, I have a full access to FIVE academic subjects with one non-academic subject (2 are provided with teacher for the deaf as a co teacher support - and 4 subjects are provided with an interpreter of my choice. So which means, I have an excellent interpreters and an excellent teacher for the deaf on my side to complete the final year (next year 2012).

There are few deaf prefects and deaf students participating the student council at my school, fully provided with an interpreter of their choice to suit the students' feeling and comfort.

At my local high school, there are around 15 deaf students (2 or 3 are hearing impaired, WAS oral, but quickly changed to identified Deaf person and are proud of themselves being deaf) - in 2013, there will be around 25 deaf students or at least because of high student number coming from Toowong.

Just remebered something, in 2012/2013 - Auslan (Australian Sign Language) will be officially recognised as a LOTE subject (Languages Other Than English) and part of Japanese/Chinese/German classes and is provided with qualified Auslan teacher to teach deaf/hearing students in the Auslan classes. Along with that, Auslan is officially recognised as a true language within schools so which means ALL hearing and deaf students have a full right (and hopefully full access) to sign language. Mainstreamed education for the deaf students are more successful, provide more access and better education qualities than Australian deaf-only schools.

In that matter, I do hope that the local high schools will slowly change from mainstreamed schools to bilingual high school. It will take at least 5 years to achieve that. Education Departments are encouraging everyone to go to mainstreamed schools, rather than deaf-only schools.

I think I've never mentioned my experiences at deaf-only school. Well, in 2008 I moved interstate to attend deaf-only school - I remembered my reaction. I never felt happy being part of the deaf-only school because there are so many deaf students around, all teachers can sign. I feel like I'm suddenly teleported from hearing world to deaf world. But same time, I am more troubled and crazier at the deaf-only school because that time I have tooo strong deaf identity so I tend to be crazier outside school, careless of what others (hearing people) think of me. I totally forgotten hearing attitude, hearing world perspective on deaf people when I went to deaf-only school.

But at the same time, the education level at deaf-only school is revolting low. There are ONLY 3 high-achievers (academic deaf students) compared to around 30 or 40 failing deaf students. Since that these 3 academic students COULD NOT stand the level of education at the deaf school, so the deaf school pay for them to move to different school - a private mainstreamed school and is provided with excellent quality of interpreter and notetaking. Guess what happened, these deaf students recieved a scholarship, and recieved almost 100% in the final year math exam. They wouldn't have achieved this if they still are stuck at deaf-only school.

So which means, deaf-only schools knew that they are failing deaf students, so they choose which deaf students have potetional to be successful - and send them to private mainstreamed school nearby and fund the interpreters. This is a sad fact, I agree. But it is normal like that in Australia, where deaf-only schools are failing deaf students and mainstreamed schools pushed deaf students out from the barrier and limitations and succeed even more.

So it is a HUGE difference between mainstreamed and deaf-only school in Australia compared to United States and United Kingdom. I always am interested to read all of the information and facts on the internet about deaf education. I am just SO interested to see what it is like out there.

In conclusion, I am planning to visit United States soon to visit deaf-only school to compare which one is better, Australian mainstreamed schools or US deaf-only schools.

Oh well, I think I'll just stop for now, have a happy new years everyone.

Well, mate, I have to disagree with you.

First, VCD is not a private school. It's open to all who wants to attend there.

Secondly, many of the kids that goes to deaf school has been transferred from mainstream hence the lower standard of education because of delays incurred.

Thirdly, I had received good quality of education not to mention great support system from the teachers and interpreters from VCD. I was lucky to attend Wesley College, located next door, to do grade 11 and 12. I passed and went on to attend top rated university.

I would say that deaf units across Vic's enrolments is actually declining for most part.

My experience as a deaf student in deaf school in Australia and deaf student at a deaf school in Canada. You would assume Canada has higher standard of education?

Well, you would be wrong.

Overall, you think funding are plentiful, however it always has come with strings attached. And funding will not be plentiful in years to come once the impact of economy downturn is felt across this nation.

Kudos to some of the hearing schools that has done the right by the students.

Besides, you seem to think you're superior to other kids because of the education you're getting. You seem to forget that you're lucky to get this kind of access because there are so many deaf and hoh students across Australia, regardless school setting, who is not getting this sort of access or education.

But same time, I am more troubled and crazier at the deaf-only school because that time I have tooo strong deaf identity so I tend to be crazier outside school, careless of what others (hearing people) think of me. I totally forgotten hearing attitude, hearing world perspective on deaf people when I went to deaf-only school.


By behaving that way, it was your choice, not the Deaf school. Cant blame that on the Deaf schools.

I never mentioned that I am superior than other deaf students however I may be grateful for all of the education I have recieved. So you transferred to Wesley because you couldn't finish Year 11 and Year 12 academically at deaf school? It's okay, it is common. TPS do not provide Year 11 12 academic education due to funding shortage, lack of academic deaf students and lack of students itself. So which means, only one or two (out of average 10 deaf students per year level) are granted scholarship to continue the academic studies at The Hills Grammar School. You seem to be one of the very few deaf students across VIC and NSW who completed Year 10 at deaf school and then transferred to private school to continue the studies.

I've always longed thought that VCD is private because it is not under the State Education, same with TPS where the school is private - not under the state/public education system. I may be wrong in that case.

From my eyes, deaf schools are failing students generally BUT only a few succeed. My old deaf school, there are around 95-98% students sadly didn't succeed due to many factors. If a student succeeded Year 10, the student will be transferred to different school (if scholarship is approved) to complete the Year 11 12 academic studies.

Just remembered, I factor same as you, when I was year 8 - I went to THGS part time for my academic subjects - I score better at mainstreamed school rather than deaf only school due to limited resources and methods at deaf school.

But of course, deaf only schools isn't for every deaf students, so do with mainstreamed isn't for every deaf students too.

I am under the impression that you did have a full communication with you parent very well in ASL (austrialian) therefore you seem not to have problem for understanding English, literacy, understanding maths and all other courses. Also, with your self confident is pretty good. It has to do something about communication well at home then will have no problem understanding what is going on at school. it does make sense to me that you rather be in the mainstreamed school. Unfortunately for other deaf kids who have lack of communication at home and then that they focus on deaf by teaching them how to speak that leads to suffer their languages. I do not know what are in the other hearing parents with no knowledges of asl or any forms fo languages mind about sending their deaf kids to deaf school first or hearing school first. However I know for sure that lots of bright deaf kids who have limited communication in their early years causes by having lack of communication at home and had no deaf role model or socialize with other deaf people. So the result most of them end up being in the deaf school at the last resort.

dont you notice that you are the fewest one who are doing very well. apparently you have a strong foundation in your early language by having well communication with parents. so lot of deaf kids with parents who have limited language to communicate with them that leads to the difficult language. So that's where it happens to deaf school itself become struggle with each of deaf kids' abilitiies that are not all same by lack of communciation in the their early years.

In that situation, it is true sadly. Language development and acquisitions are so important, and only able to be achieved with sign language. I wasn't born deaf, I was born hearing (according to my newborn hearing test) but Auslan is my first language. That's right, I learnt sign language WAY before I was diagnosed deaf. I was diagnosed deaf due to an illness around my first birthday. I have a very good language start, at around 5 months old - and a huge thanks to the existence of sign language.

My family all are signing like as if it is an identified deaf family. But now I just received my first cochlear implant (my choice) and my family start to stop using sign language, slowly. Because I requested it, to fast-move my speech development - and it is working. But in reality, I am still in deaf community. Sign Language is just tooooooo beautiful to just throw away.

Anyway back to topic, yeah I agree with you but basically I think deaf-only classes at mainstreamed schools will help language delayed deaf students greatly. I have my deaf friend, who I knew for nearly 17 years, was one of the first deaf person in Queensland who is implanted under 18, her CI didn't work. She was depressed and is an emo, she is too shy to fit in deaf groups AND hearing groups. Her understanding in language and social interaction is vey bad, and is very sad. But ever since when she was transferred from mental health ward (that have a deaf education program there) to my mainstreamed high school and goes to few mainstreamed classes with me and sometimes she goes to deaf only classes with one teacher at Sign Language Centre to improve her learning. It is now around a year since when she was discharged, her language development and social interaction skills just improved dramatically. She now barely in a need for counseling, she integrates very well. It won't happen if mainstreamed school didn't give her support. And need the less to add that Queensland don't have any deaf-only school. Last deaf-only school was closed down around 30 years ago. Only education methods you can choose in QLD is either bilingual/bicultural program or normal mainstreamed school with full time Teacher for the Deaf, Auslan Language Model, Teacher Aides, Qualified Interpreters, Educational Interpreters and note taking support.

Anyway, to the end, I totally understand your point. I agree with that but sometimes we need mainstreamed school to complete the academic studies.

Username said:

In that situAti

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what is situAti?

Miss Delectable, just pop in to quick reply your statement about Vic deaf unit enrollment is declining. It may be true, but it is VERY typical. Every 5 or 10 years, on a pattern, deaf student population always go up down up down, naturally. But in Brisbane, we are currently on the stage of increasing deaf student population. Thanks to primary schools especially Toowong, where around 5 to 10 Year 6 deaf students join up high school in 2013 (therefore increasing to around 25 deaf students PLUS around 5 deaf students from another primary school nearby. So from now until around 2020, there will be a significantly high deaf student population at either two mainstreamed high schools in Brisbane. But I know that sometime in future, it will decline again and go up, so go on. Forgot to add that there are nearly 30 deaf students at single mainstreamed primary school, and have never seen a single decline ever since - growing at around 10 new deaf preps every year. By 2020, Toowong will maybe have around 45 deaf students amongst 200 hearing students.

Sorry, I am on phone - it acts funny when I type, such as accidentally pressing submit. Did it work now, I refreshed and edited that message.

Username, as a fellow Aussie, born deaf into a hearing family, raised oral and mainstreamed, I somewhat disagree with you. I think it is vital that we maintain Deaf-only schools. As much as I wish that Auslan be introduced as a LOTE (Language Other Than English) taught in schools nationwide, as it is a good start, it will however, more realistically, take much more than just a LOTE class to combat prejudiced mindsets and Audism. I am talking from experience, where just because I was not given the opportunity to learn Auslan as a child, I am having to break down many preset barriers not only among the hearing society but also among the Deaf community in Australia. Learning what should have my first language as an adult is not a easy road. Because it was forced upon all of us by society, whether from Deaf families with Auslan as their first and home language - to those who are born deaf in hearing families and raised oral....it was forced upon all of us, to be oral and at some point or other be mainstreamed. That is, spare a rare few, who were able to attend Deaf schools throughout their school lives and have Auslan at home with their families as well.

How ideal it would be if all schools could be bilingual in both Auslan (or any national sign language for that matter) and English, prejudice and Audism put aside and everyone is happy. It can be done, but it does not happen with a snap of the fingers or a wiggle of the nose. 5 years you say? How I wish. Yes, it is true, Queensland does have a strong Deaf influence, so has Victoria, somehow if we can pull together with NSW squashed in the middle - make ourselves known and visible, stand up and come out of the woodwork, unite, not just in schools but throughout society, then I believe we can make a difference and see changes for the better such as real appreciation not only for our own language (because for the majority of hearing people, it is just a novelty that soon wears off) but also true respect for Deaf culture and equality for all dhh as well.

Username, if you do not mind if i mention your name that your original post in the other thread that you have a coda parent. so it helps for us to understand where or what or how you are coming from based on your language.

thank you.

Well I think there needs to be a contimum of placements available.
Solotaire placement needs to be the minority! I support deaf units yes....but I ALSO support 100% deaf schools too...especially with boarding. What happens if you're one of those teens in the middle of no where without teachers who are experianced with dhh ed, or a good social group, or if you're in the middle of the Outback?

BecLak, in fact Auslan IS officially recognized as a language for mainstreamed high schools across South East Queensland (Brisbane) and Auslan will become one of the LOTE subject as soon as 2012/2013.

You may have few negative experience in mainstreamed environment while I don't. Well, there may be few issues such as Signed English and thick headed Head of Special Education ("Hearing Impaired Unit") while it is not an unit anymore. But it don't matter anymore because $37 million have been spent since 2008 to provide full mainstreamed education in Auslan, and deadline was 2011/12. So from my experience, everything is much better.

From my perspective, deaf-only school is perfect for sadly disadvantaged deaf students with additional disabilities or severe language delay, while mainstreamed schools are perfect for academic deaf students with near-perfect language or perfect language. It is a fact based on my old deaf school where I spent a year at this school, where there are over 90% deaf students with poor language development and poor social interaction. Once when the deaf students from this deaf school move to privat school nearby to complete Year 11 12, their learning levels and social interaction blossomed dramatically.

But basically, I may be firm on what I believe but I am firmly support bilingual and mainstreamed education method (that it is very good as Queensland deaf education system is) - is the hope for all deaf students around world.

curious, did you participate any activities at school or at home?

Username said:

BecLak, in fact Auslan IS officially recognized as a language for mainstreamed high schools across South East Queensland (Brisbane) and Auslan will become one of the LOTE subject as soon as 2012/2013.

You may have few negative experience in mainstreamed environment while I don't. Well, there may be few issues such as Signed English and thick headed Head of Special Education ("Hearing Impaired Unit") while it is not an unit anymore. But it don't matter anymore because $37 million have been spent since 2008 to provide full mainstreamed education in Auslan, and deadline was 2011/12. So from my experience, everything is much better.

From my perspective, deaf-only school is perfect for sadly disadvantaged deaf students with additional disabilities or severe language delay, while mainstreamed schools are perfect for academic deaf students with near-perfect language or perfect language. It is a fact based on my old deaf school where I spent a year at this school, where there are over 90% deaf students with poor language development and poor social interaction. Once when the deaf students from this deaf school move to privat school nearby to complete Year 11 12, their learning levels and social interaction blossomed dramatically.

But basically, I may be firm on what I believe but I am firmly support bilingual and mainstreamed education method (that it is very good as Queensland deaf education system is) - is the hope for all deaf students around world.

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It is great that there has been progress made in Queensland, but it is far from reality nationwide in Australia. Where I am coming from - is from a lifetime of mainstream schools, raised oral and succeeded academically by pure determination (I have a doctorate's degree). Seminar speaker and lecturer by profession (orally), speaking well enough that most hearing people do not know I am severely-deaf unless I tell them. Yet, since discovering my Deaf identity 2+ years ago, I have since taken on being a voice-off and a sign language/visual communicator as my preferred choice plus an advocate against Audism. Why is that do you think?

Username said:

BecLak, in fact Auslan IS officially recognized as a language for mainstreamed high schools across South East Queensland (Brisbane) and Auslan will become one of the LOTE subject as soon as 2012/2013.

You may have few negative experience in mainstreamed environment while I don't. Well, there may be few issues such as Signed English and thick headed Head of Special Education ("Hearing Impaired Unit") while it is not an unit anymore. But it don't matter anymore because $37 million have been spent since 2008 to provide full mainstreamed education in Auslan, and deadline was 2011/12. So from my experience, everything is much better.

From my perspective, deaf-only school is perfect for sadly disadvantaged deaf students with additional disabilities or severe language delay, while mainstreamed schools are perfect for academic deaf students with near-perfect language or perfect language. It is a fact based on my old deaf school where I spent a year at this school, where there are over 90% deaf students with poor language development and poor social interaction. Once when the deaf students from this deaf school move to privat school nearby to complete Year 11 12, their learning levels and social interaction blossomed dramatically.

But basically, I may be firm on what I believe but I am firmly support bilingual and mainstreamed education method (that it is very good as Queensland deaf education system is) - is the hope for all deaf students around world.

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Username, what about dhh kids falling through the cracks? You're assuming that a mainstream teacher/administrator would be familiar with how to teach kids like us. Granted its better at a dhh unit but still........there's the attitude at a lot of mainstream schools here that dhh kids are just "oh just move them along, they can't learn anything" Just b/c you plunk dhh (or otherwise disabled kids) into a mainstream enviroment, it doesn't mean that they're automaticly going to get the same education as a hearing or nondisabled student. ..